Shotguns…

For those that know me, in the BF series I usually only ever play with shotguns. Perhaps because I find it a good combination between a long-range sniper type rifles and a solid CQB weapon. It is certainly one of the hardest to level-up and sometimes even harder to master (for me anyway).

In Bad Company the Scope 870 with slugs had NO bullet drop and I could One Hit Kill (OHK) across the map. It was certainly insane and I would agree, unfair. It was latter nerfed and then further nerfed in BF3. Many people stopped using them all together and moved over to the sniper rifle. However, being a diehard fan, I mustered forward with dealing with the now double nerfed shotgun and while more difficult, still managed to do well. I am certainly not one of the top players, but in Bad Company and BF3 I held my own well and would frequently be in the top 5 players in each game. Part was surely tactics, but I felt there remained an advantage with the shotgun and in the BK servers we play in Hardcore mode (60 health) which further help reduced the nerfing of the shotguns.

Well I am on my shotgun journey in BF4 and with any new roll-out it takes some getting used to as well as a learning curve, what weapons and mods are good, and relearning some skills. The downside with trying to ramp-up shotguns is that you start with buck-shot and that means you will be sniper meat a lot, I mean a lot. I had games where I am only 2 – 10, because I need to be CLOSE to get that kill. For those that level up in shotguns, it is just a pain you have to endure and you are later able to lay waste to those pesky snipers.

I am still on my journey and it is still very early. I have not been able to get nearly the kind of game play in that I would like (real life keeps interrupting). However, last night I unlocked the slugs (finally). I forgot how much I needed them to compete.
So far I am using the starting Shotgun still (QBS-09). It is not too bad, not nearly as great as some of the shotguns in BF3 or better yet Bad Company, but still solid.

Some items that I noticed is that the CHOKE is a must when using buckshot, the OHK and accuracy is far better. It seems that I am doing more damage at range with buckshot using the full CHOKE. It was a noticeable difference; unfortunately I don’t have the data to back that up.

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QBS-09 info (cursory observations)

The QBS-09 has a 4x scope and what’s nice is that 4x and under scopes doesn’t create GLARE that gives those snipers away. So while you might not be as zoomed in as much as those 6x + scopes, you can still reach out and touch someone with ease. The accuracy of the slug is not bad, however I do notice a drop at range and you need to compensate. I am still trying to judge distance in the scope, but I have dropped some tangos at distance with headshots.

I haven’t yet leveled up any other shotguns yet, will eventually unlock them all, do more research and collect data. However, at this point the shotguns seem to still hold up very well.  I would like to see some more accurate data and also see some comparable to BF3.

QBS-09 is a OHK under 15m with slugs (75 damage) however that drops off to 38 damage out at 50m, so you need to get a head shot or double tap. It’s an auto – so two hits is possible. I can reach out and touch a stationary target, but on the run – it is far more difficult.

Flechette is a OHK under 20m (121 damage) and even out to 50m if you get all 11 flechettes to hit at 7.4 damage each that’s 81.4, in fact you need slightly over 8 out of 11 flechettes to hit to drop someone at range. I would like to test the chokes and flechette at distance.

Buckshot is certainly a OHK under 15 (169.4 damage), but that falls off fairly quickly at 30m with 5.2 damage per pellet down from 15.4. That means NO OHK at 30m with buckshot.
That means only Slugs and Flechette as possible best load outs.

It does say that you should NOT use a choke with the slugs; I am not sure what would happen if you did, I haven’t tested that yet. However, the chokes do make a huge difference with spread and accuracy with buckshot (haven’t experimented with the flechette yet).

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I look forward to testing out the well-known and trusted 870 MCs, but I am also eager to try out the UTS-15 which seems to have the highest accuracy rating of them all. I did notice a SerbuShorty that can go in place of the pistol slot (12-gauge sawed off), so I will also need to add that to my repertoire.

It will be a long time, with my unfortunate low playing time schedule, to level up everything and run some full tests. I of course will be checking out symthic’s site for data, he has some up already , but is missing data and load outs. Symthic's Shotgun stats

With everything it is about putting in the time, gaining knowledge and combining it with experience before wisdom is achieved. I will get there, just you wait. For now, I remain in the low part of the learning curve as I level up and unlock new toys.

I will update as I have more.

So I literally was ONLY playing with the QBS-09 unlocking everything and 99% of the time on the BK Server 1 (crouch).

Ok – first thing first, shotguns are very hard and frustrating to level-up. Mainly because you are using buck-shot and until you get the “full choke” range stinks. So you become sniper bait for a long time, until you get 90 kills and unlock the slug.
As soon as I unlocked the slug, the game changed radically for me. With a slug and 4x scope I could reach-out and touch someone at distance. Most crouch games you are shooting in the sub 100m range and that makes a 4x slug a great weapon.

The QBS-09 is far better than I thought it would be and has become my workhorse. It’s automatic – so I didn’t really want to move to a pump-action. Yeah, I know, everyone loves the 870 from BF3. Well the QBS-09 is not only automatic, but does just as much damage (from my experience). Since we are playing Hard Core, why bother with the 870.

I used the OBS-09 to unlock all of the shot-guns before switching. This weekend I managed to get some play-time in and decided to check out the DBV-12. That also meant starting back with buck shot, no choke, no scope.  Frustration time, but the full-choke certainly helped (once I got it). In fact in one game I had a 8 kill streak in the cave map (snow outside) – forget the name. CQB with full-choke buck-shot does very well. Just need to unlock the Flecette and that will be deadly.

Well I unlocked the slug for the DBV-12 last night and that sure felt good. With the faster reload of the DBV-12 mag vs. the slow single loads on the QBS-09, I was on fire.

Questions (with no answers yet) – I welcome thoughts.

1. What happens if I use a choke with a slug? Haven’t tried it yet – it says it is not recommended.
2. It shows the DBV-12 has less damage vs. QBS-09, but I haven’t been able to tell. It remains a single shot head kill for both with slugs. Need to check body damage. Any thoughts?
3. DBV-12 shows that it is more accurate, but I am not sure about this. I haven’t used the DBV-12 long enough to notice. No doubt the QBS-09 had bullet drop with the slugs, but I could adjust for that.


So far I am only playing Support and some Engineer. Support with Airburst / Shot-gun seems like a better set-up for our Hardcore Crouch server.

Just need to get some more time in with the DBV-12.

If there are any other shotgun players I would love to hear your thoughts.

Some answers I have found out.


1. What happens if I use a choke with a slug? Haven’t tried it yet – it says it is not recommended.

Makes no difference to the effect of the Slugs that anyone has been able to discern. Does NOT affect range or damage.

2. It shows the DBV-12 has less damage vs. QBS-09, but I haven’t been able to tell. It remains a single shot head kill for both with slugs.

Damage number stats in game have no real barring of actual damage in game.

3. DBV-12 shows that it is more accurate, but I am not sure about this. I haven’t used the DBV-12 long enough to notice. No doubt the QBS-09 had bullet drop with the slugs, but I could adjust for that.

No real answer on this - it may have to do with Bullet Drop (but I haven't checked on it yet).


Some Data on Slugs including damage and range.


Automatic Shotguns:
DBV-12     75D 12m / 38D 50m  
M1014       75D 12m / 38D 50m
QBS-09     75D 12m  / 38D 50m
Saiga         75D 12m / 38D 50m

The drop off in damage to 60 is at approximately 28m. That means EVER automatic shotgun with a slug is a one shot kill out to 28m.
How does that compare to Pumps? Well the pumps start at 100D but also fall off to 38D at 50m. That means they are a one shot kill out to approximately 35m.

I only play Hard Core, which I believe most of us BK members do. So 60 damage is where we focus our one-shot kills at. True you get a little more range on the pump vs. automatic for one-shot kills.
However, head-shots with a 3x multiplier means that ANY head-shot (automatic or pump) at range is a one-shot kill. Over 100m that is not hard, even with only a 4x scope.

It is reasonable at this point to come to the conclusion that no single automatic shot-gun is better than the other when comparing damage and range. That means we need to focus on other factors.

Reload speed
Recoil
Mag Size
Rate of Fire

My next post will break that down in more detail.

Good info Silexx.  I'm like Silexx in this regard.  I very much enjoy using shotguns because most people don't.  It can be tough on our crouch server though as it seems most just go sniper rifle (myself included.. Hey when in Rome..)  But if I had my preference I typically go shotty

I have the most kills in M1014 using explosive shells primarily followed closely by slug because it has a great rate of fire and puts out great damage.  It can really reach out and ruin someones day.

Below are my personal opinions about the shotgun line;

Norinco QBS-09 -- The QBS09 is the first shotgun and is a 6 round tube fed gas operated Chinese police issued anti-personnel weapon.  Being tube fed, reloads are inserted 1 round at a time reload which means reloads are a tad slow but being semi automatic it's extremely forgiving and a good starter shotgun.  In my opinion the later semi-auto shotty's beat the QBS both in damage and usability.

Remington 870 MCS --  I have special fondness for the 870 because I actually own one, but I think they did it a bit of a disservice in BF4.  It's an 8 round tube fed pump action shotgun which means you must pump each time you shoot, so it slows down your rate of fire quite a bit.  This is finesse shotgun that you MUST aim well with and as such isn't as friendly or easy to use as the QBS.  The pumpaction aspect of it means you get a damage boost compared to the QBS, but I don't feel like it puts out as much damage as the various sites say it does.  Just like Silexx said above, I think the amount the charts say versus actual play testing don't match up.  Between this and the QBS, stick with the QBS.

Benelli M4 ( M1014 ) -- Semi-automatic tube fed 8 round boom stick.  This is my personal favorite semi-auto shotty and I have it 100% unlocked.  It seems to have the greatest rate of fire to damage ratio from play testing.  Reload means 1 shell at a time so reload is slow, but with 8 shells in the mag you get great bang for the buck.  This is the best spray and pray shotgun, if you're on a run and gun this one wont let you down.  It has excellent range and put's out all 8 shells very quickly.

Hawk 12G -- A 6 round magazine fed pump action shotgun that is frankly, terrible.   On paper it should be good because reload will be faster being magazine fed, and it should hit especially hard being pump action, but it doesn't seem to hit hard and reload isn't that fast.  In fact when you reload it seems like he's digging around in his back pocket for 2 or 3 seconds to find the fresh magazine.   More over, reload only gives you 5 rounds not 6 because the 6th one is still in the chamber from the previous reload.  This was a tough shotty for me to use initially likely due to what seems an amazingly slow shot time and the limited shells coming from the M1014.  Again this is a finesse shotgun like the 870 that requires aiming.  If you are a spray and pray player, you'll hate this shotgun.  In all I would say stick with an earlier shotgun until you get one of the later pumps unlocked.

Saiga 12K -- This is a semiautomatic 8 round magazine fed (9th in chamber) shotgun that is pretty much used as the pinnacle of shotgun awesomeness in most games.  Being semi-auto it has a good rate of fire and with 8 shells you get lots of rounds.  It has a faster reload time than the M1014 but it my opinion it doesn't quite hit as hard or shoot as fast.   All of the boards and charts say this shotgun does more damage than the 1014, and while that might be true the M1014 is faster firing so any damage increase is lost in the noise of the second shell I just shot at you with my M1014.  Either way this is a good shotgun as you'd expect.

Franchi Spas-12 -- This is a 9 round tube fed pump action shotgun that is very fast firing for a pump.  Again being tube fed, you have to reload one round at a time so reload to full is slow but the pump aspect of it means it hits hard.  This is a good all around work horse shotgun.  It performs very well, hits hard, shoots fast and is probably the shotgun I would recommend for most players who know how to make their shots count, aim well and take that extra couple milliseconds to not miss.   Using fullchoke with buckshot usually means 1 shot kill on HC or 2 on normal, or using slug means you're going to kill 1 shot just about every time in either place.

UTAS UTS-15 -- This is a 15 round double 7 round feedtube bullpup pump action shotgun that is a blast to play with, but is extremely difficult to use if you're just starting out using shotguns or are a spray and pray player.  This is the ultimate in finesse shotguns and it requires you aim like the 870 or Hawk, but hits way harder and has more range.  It has a lot of rounds so you can shoot quite a lot before you reload, but if you shoot it empty reloading will take forever as you have to now load 15 shells one at a time cycling between sides.   In my opinion this shotgun hits harder than any other shot gun in the game and has the most range. (Even though all the boards and stats disagree on that last point.)  Once you get slugs into it, this thing is almost the sniper rifle that the 870 in BF3 was post nurf.  If you take the extra millisecond or two to aim well, this sucker wont do you wrong.  This is the one I use now usually.

(Fictional) Kalashnikov DBV-12 -- This is the final unlock in the shotgun tree (as of this writing) and is supposed to be the new pinnacle of semi-auto shotgun awesomeness to replace the Saiga, and all of its stats pretty much do just that.  It's a semiautomatic 10 round magazine fed (11 with one in the chamber) box of awesomeness.  Because it is semi-auto it suffers quite a bit from the lower damage modifier that all semi shotguns are hit with but frankly 10 rounds firing at the rate this thing will spit will kill anything even at range.  

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Best Semi-Automatic Shotgun;  In my opinion I think the M1014 is the better semi-auto shotgun.  The DBV hits a lot harder than the 1014, but the 1014 has better range and fires a lot faster.  If you're a run and gun spray and pray player, the 1014 will just perform for you.  It could likely stand to hit just a tad harder than it does, but it's rate of fire is pretty silly.

Best Pump Shotgun;  Boy thats tough and really situational.  I think I'm going to have to say the Spas or all around goodness as it is a very good shotgun.  It has a large enough magazine size to be effective and the shot times on it are darn good.

Hardest shotgun to use;  UTS-15.  To be honest, when I first started using it I thought it sucked.  Primarily because they really made time between each shot too long.   In fact I'm pretty sure the time between shots on the UTS-15 is longer than most bolt action rifles. hah  Having said that, once you get some unlocks on the UTS it starts to shine.  It just takes some effort to get there.